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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 23, 2020 6:13:38 GMT -8
So sure am I that Thoresen was Zodiac, I wrote a book about him. People have said "well, yeah, looks like a maniac but he died in mid 1970. And there were more letters." To this I say look at the envelopes to the mailings. All the envelopes to the media while Thoresen was alive have two stamps and a notation with the word editor in it. But once he dies, the extra stamp and editor notation disappear. And if you think that's a coincidence, consider: 1. Thoresen was a stutterer who received speech therapy from his wife. This explains the witnesses saying Zodiac spoke in an unnatural way, sounded like he was reading what he was saying or rehearsed it. 2. When Thoresen was busted for setting off bombs, he hired Melvin Belli to fight extradition from CA to AZ. Then he wrote to Belli, as Zodiac, when he was finally cracking up (at Christmas, 1969. At that time Thoresen's wife had left him, yet again. This was making it more difficult for him to continue killing. Hence Zodiac activity ceased. He was also broke, which is saying something as he had blown through at least half a million bucks since mid 1965... and that's half a million bucks in mid sixties money.) Thoresen's employment of Belli is documented in his wife's book. 3. Stein case witnesses said Zodiac had reddish hair. Thoresen had red in his hair, this is documented in the wife's book. 4. Stein witnesses saw Zodiac walk north. The cops saw him walking east and then north. Thoresen's house was northeast of the Stein crime scene. 5. Zodiac wrote (in the Bus Bomb letter, bottom of page 2) when the cops were searching for him in the park with K-9 units after Stein was killed that "the dogs" never got within two blocks of him and were to the west. Thoresen's house in Pacific Heights was two blocks east of where they were searching for him, exactly two blocks east. 6. Valerie Percy was beaten and stabbed in Thoresen's parent's neighborhood near Chicago. The weapon was a bayonet. How often are civilians stabbed with bayonets? Never. Read the autopsy report on Cecelia Shepard. She was stabbed with a bayonet. The FBI suspected Thoresen of killing Percy because his wife was caught trying to transport several identical bayonets on her husband's behalf two months after Percy was killed. Think these are coincidences? There's a lot more. Hence the book: www.amazon.com/Zodiac-Maniac-Secret-History-Killer-ebook/dp/B07XYDYWQT/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1590026275&sr=8-1
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 23, 2020 15:32:53 GMT -8
By December, 1966, less than three months after she was beaten and stabbed to death, the FBI thought Thoresen a prime suspect in the murder of Valerie Percy. Percy was a neighbor of Thoresen’s parents in Kenilworth, IL. He grew up there. Thoresen’s father was worth $70 million (1960s dollars.) His eldest son was also crazy rich, and crazy violent.
Percy was killed by a bayonet-wielding intruder. Read Cecelia Shepard’s autopsy report. The pathologist said her wounds looked to have been caused by a bayonet. I spoke at length with two detectives who worked the Percy case. One ran it. Both had long law enforcement careers in Chicago, one as the city’s Homicide Commander. Neither could recall another case where a civilian was stabbed with a bayonet. Both said such a scenario is unheard of.
When Thoresen moved to San Francisco, in 1965, he was already a suspect in two murders and one suspicious death, the latter which he later confessed to.
Thoresen was a stutterer. His wife had studied speech therapy, and worked with him on pronunciation. Consider that in regard to witnesses who described how Zodiac spoke.
He lived in Pacific Heights, about 11 blocks from the Stein crime scene. His wife documented he had red in his hair, as seen by witnesses at the scene. His house was northeast of the crime scene, directions witnesses saw Zodiac walking in after the shooting.
Thoresen’s home was exactly two blocks east of the area of the park that was being searched with K-9 units after the Stein shooting. About this Zodiac wrote that the dogs never got within two blocks of him and were to the west.
He was obsessed with things military, and busted for illegal possession and transportation of over 70 tons of mostly military weapons, including bayonets. It was big news in 1967.
In 1964, Thoresen fought extradition (from CA to AZ) on bombing charges. He hired Melvin Belli as his attorney. Before Christmas, 1969, when Zodiac wrote to Belli, Thoresen’s wife had separated from him and was threatening to divorce him. Like his red hair, this is documented in Thoresen’s wife’s book.
Thoresen was shot to death on June 10, 1970 by his wife, who was acquitted for killing him. Consider what a feat that was for a woman in 1970. She would have had to convince a jury that he was a highly dangerous, world class SOB. She did.
Note the envelopes to Zodiac’s mailings changed significantly just when Thoresen died. His two stamps MO vanished. So did the word editor, which had been on every envelope while he was alive. The next four mailings, including the Halloween card, lack these features.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 24, 2020 5:00:05 GMT -8
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 24, 2020 5:11:21 GMT -8
The above might be some documents you are familiar with, others perhaps not. The first is the second page of a letter written by the killer of Mike Morrison and Debbie Means in Illinois in early May, 1969. Said killer sent the letter to Means' mother, and phoned police to take credit for the murders. Second document is the envelope discovered with the so called Hautz letter, believed by some (including, apparently a crime reporter at the Press newspaper) to have been written by the killer of Cheri Jo Bates in October, 1966, in Riverside, CA. The 3rd is a note that was found taped near the door of the cabin where all six members of the Robison family were murdered in July, 1968.
I'm not the first to say the Hautz letter and cabin note were written by the same person, and Zodiac killed the Robisons. I am the first to note the similarities between the first two and the Morrison/Means letter. And Thoresen, who was from Illinois, wrote them all.
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Post by ophion1031 on Jul 26, 2020 19:14:11 GMT -8
Wow, I was not familiar with the Morrison/Means murder. Gonna have to look into that. Do you have any of Thoresen's handwriting? I spent a lot of time trying to locate some and had no luck. I really don't like him as a Zodiac suspect, but I have loved researching the guy. He was selling weapons to radical groups in the U.S. and in Central America. He was flying drugs to Europe. He was a complete psycho and I am 100% convinced that he did murder Valerie Percy, Judith Mae Andersen and Dale Stoddard. Louise left a lot out of her book, but there is plenty that can be found about him online that she left out.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 27, 2020 4:26:43 GMT -8
I have a letter he signed, one word "Bill." I published it in my latest book, along with info on the Morrison-Means murder. I have a pretty strong opinion of it and these other writing samples but I will let others decide for themselves at this point: www.amazon.com/Zodiac-Maniac-Secret-History-Killer/dp/0989971554/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1590026275&sr=8-1Yes, there's a lot the wife left out of her book. I go into that in depth and the fact that, as written it makes no sense (which isn't to say regarding all of this there's not a lot of great information in there. It's just she tries to walk...or write?...a line that's not believable):
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 27, 2020 4:49:15 GMT -8
When rehearsing the Percy case, I discounted Thoresen as a Zodiac suspect. But I didn't know a lot about Zodiac at that point.
When I heard the descriptions of how he spoke, knowing Thoresen had a pretty severe (according to the FBI and others) stuttering problem, and the wife wrote she had studied speech therapy and tutored him...then I found the info on him and Belli, and knowing his interest in guns and military issues, travelled to LA starting in '62 or so. Now I've found stuff in the letters that shows the envelopes changed when he died, and him saying where he was after Stein was killed...is exactly where Thoresen's house was.
Then you have these writing samples. He was killing people in the midwest before and during Zodiac but by mid '69 he was broke, couldn't afford to travel anymore and was just killing in his own backyard. He would have never done that until late '68. That was a bad year for him.
There's no doubt Zodiac killed Percy. There's plenty of that in the book, too.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 27, 2020 4:58:17 GMT -8
Wow, I was not familiar with the Morrison/Means murder. Page one of the letter from this case. Attachments:
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 28, 2020 4:49:21 GMT -8
“The dogs never came with in 2 blocks of me + they were to the west…” - Zodiac, page 2 the Bus Bomb Letter. www.zodiackiller.com/BombLetter2.htmlTwo blocks to the east of where they were searching the park (with the dogs) is exactly where Thoresen’s house was. Thoresen, who when he moved to S.F. in 1965 was a suspect in two brutal murders and one suspicious death, who in the mid-sixties hired Melvin Belli as his attorney, and who had red in his hair like the Stein witnesses saw, and whose house was northeast of the Stein crime scene (directions Zodiac/suspect were seen walking in after the Stein murder), and whose wife had been caught trying to ship bayonets to him after the murder of Valerie Percy (who lived a block from Thoresen’s parents house in Illinois) and was killed by bayonet like Cecelia Shepard, and who was traveling to LA starting in 1962, and who just so happened to die at the moment the editor notation and double stamps vanished from the envelopes of the mailings, whose IL police record shows he disabled his parent's cars by pulling wires from their engines (as was done to Cheri Jo Bates’ car a year later) and in whose home state Mike Morrison and Debbie Means were killed in Zodiac-like fashion, who hoarded guns and was obsessed with things military, and who stuttered and had received speech therapy (accounting for that odd way of speaking to the cops and Bryan Hartnell.) This is all documented. And there’s more, like these handwriting samples which link Bates to numerous brutal murders in the Midwest. But I’m sure it’s all a coincidence and we need to focus on one of the “top ten suspects” of which Thoresen is conspicuously not one though he blows them all away. As if any case could have a top ten suspects list. If any of the ten could be argued to have done it they’re all crap suspects.
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Post by ophion1031 on Jul 28, 2020 21:04:03 GMT -8
I'm sure you have seen at other sites that people have given me crap for even suggesting that Thoresen had anything to do with the Zodiac murders. And really I was just suggesting that he may have played a part in the Stine murder. I mean, what are the odds that a psychopath that had killed before and lived exactly one mile from the crime scene could have something to do with it? He definitely can't be ruled out. "But he died in 1970." Yeah, that means nothing, in my opinion. There were Zodiac letters sent after his death, but I have always believed that the killer had someone else writing the letters. People say that Ted Kaczynski can't be looked at with the "team Zodiac" theory because he wouldn't have worked with another else. I think that is BS. Thoresen, on the other hand, he was the type of person that would have been involved with other people in something like this. I still don't think he was the actual killer, at least not for Lake Berryessa, Blue Rock Springs or Lake Herman Rd, but he may have been responsible or had something to do with Paul Stine's murder. I think that maybe Thoresen met zodiac in the Presidio or maybe even in a mental facility. I'm not convinced, but I would not be surprised if their paths crossed at least once. I would really like to know if Thoresen knew Kjell Qvale. Thoresen's love for cars and racing might be the key to finding that out.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 29, 2020 3:10:59 GMT -8
Of course they give you crap. Same here. Only now they're not doing that anymore because it's irrefutable. So they just try to ignore it.
The more you know about Thoresen, the more you realize he not only was him, but the way he went out, when he went out, they had no choice but manufacture a bunch of crap about a bunch of worthless suspects and it continues to this day. Ever wonder how many are working with or for FBI, Justice?
But they screwed up with the envelopes. That's the proof (along with it's obvious the other mailings weren't him. But they couldn't resist screwing that up, too.)
Thoresen's story is so crazy and he was doing it all out in the open like the rich, entitled bastard he was...hoarding tons of guns, doing tons of drugs, assaulting and raping, and trampling all of the system with his money, until it was gone, along with his wife. Then he couldn't travel anymore. So he started killing where he lived. The fact Stein was the last and so close to where he lived is just more proof.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 29, 2020 5:26:12 GMT -8
I'm sure you have seen at other sites that people have given me crap for even suggesting that Thoresen had anything to do with the Zodiac murders. Don't worry. One day you can say it was on your site that evidence was first posted that proved W.T. was him. Here's his signature (from a letter to his brother the year before he had him killed.) Compare it to "Riverside" on the Hautz envelope. Same handwriting. Yes, he killed Bates, too. And this is but a fraction of it. You really ought to read my second book.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 29, 2020 5:49:07 GMT -8
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 29, 2020 5:50:50 GMT -8
A recent online review of the book:
5.0 out of 5 stars New Zodiac candidate you've never heard about.... Reviewed in the United States on June 17, 2020 Verified Purchase
Any true crime fan needs to get acquainted with the strange life and history of William Thoresen, arguably one of the most under-the-radar psychopaths in the annals of crime. Author Glenn Wall's first book introduces the reader to Thoresen in his terrific book, "Sympathy Vote - The Reinvestigation of the Valerie Percy murder", the baffling murder of the daughter of soon to be Senator Charles Percy in 1966.
As a young boy living in the Chicagoland area, I vividly remember the fear and fascination this horrific murder had and continues to have, as the case has inexplicably never been solved. Wall presents a compelling case for suspecting that Thoresen was the shadowy figure seen in the bedroom on that tragic night. A person of means,Thoresen was the son of a wealthy family living just blocks from the Percy residence and was well known to the local police. Wall's follow-up book, "Zodiac Maniac" continues to follow Thoresen's travels through other suspected crimes/murders and his curious hobby of collecting roomfuls of old WWII era weapons.
His wealth leads to a new life in Northern California, which becomes the backdrop for another unsolved string of crimes, the notorious Zodiac murders. Now, the author presents a new Zodiac candidate who never was considered due a fascinating mixture of legal maneuvering thanks to wealth, bureaucratic bungling, federal vs state/local inter-department non-cooperation and good ol' cover your ass incompetence. I recommend picking up both books. You'll not want to put them down.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 29, 2020 7:28:08 GMT -8
FYI, in recent years it has been written Means was raped. But, as I published in my book, I found an article with a quote from the pathologist who did her autopsy. He said she wasn't raped.
Zodiac is all over that one...victims were young couple in a car in a remote area, female was bound with laundry line, male shot with .22, both killed in isolated, rural area, then the letter, and the call.
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Post by ophion1031 on Jul 29, 2020 20:44:44 GMT -8
Have you seen/heard of the ZODIUS thing in Michigan, that happened before the ZODIAC murders started? I'll see if I can find that thread... I think it's not a coincidence and that Zodiac had killed in Michigan...
Yeah, Thoresen is a fascinating person to read about. If I was around back then I would have loved to meet him. The shit he would do is just crazy, and he didn't seem to care about getting caught for any of it.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 30, 2020 2:59:32 GMT -8
Have not heard of that (case?) But few things would surprise me when it come to him. No comment on the signature?
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Jul 31, 2020 4:48:11 GMT -8
By the way, I have posted info on the Morrison/Means case and handwriting samples (same as above) and they have gotten "very interesting!" type reactions, and more in Zodiac related forums and social media groups. However, many of those who always chime in regarding the same old regurgitated crap suspects, and ciphers have been conspicuously quiet, like their silence is deafening quiet.
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Post by ophion1031 on Aug 5, 2020 1:07:04 GMT -8
I agree that the B in Bill does look similar to some of the Riverside B's and P's. That's cool you found that!
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Post by ophion1031 on Aug 5, 2020 1:29:09 GMT -8
I thought of a really good question to ask you the other day and now I can't think of it. D'oh!!
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Aug 5, 2020 13:19:49 GMT -8
You'll remember it.
Not only that, compare the tightness of the loops at the top of the Ls to same at the top of the D in Riverside, and the slant forward of the characters in both examples.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Aug 6, 2020 5:42:04 GMT -8
I just posted this this morning in another forum, thought I'd share it here: Good morning all. You may know I commented yesterday on the recent information regarding Thoresen, and the Morrison-Means case, as well as both the lack of comments, but also interest it has drawn in some places. I also noted it is curious some people who otherwise always seem to be commenting, if not dredging up, the same old information on the same old suspects, mailings, and seemingly unrelated cases (often ones that occurred/surfaced after Thoresen was dead) which go nowhere, have been silent regarding him, except to occasionally slam him as a suspect without saying why. Case in point, one “Babs Cash” surfaced yesterday in a Zodiac Facebook group. In her new writings she explained it has “been awhile since I last posted,” and she “had to take a break.” Then she launched into an essay about thrilling Zodiac suspect Larry (yawn) Kane, who she is “pretty much certain” is Zodiac. Then she posted another expansive essay, with photos, on the Donna Lass case. Lass, of course, died after Thoresen. I don’t know about you, but given the new info on Thorsen, the fact that “Babs” felt the need to surface at this time and posit expansively using old information to support a weak theory which implies Zodiac was still alive in the fall of ’70…well you might recall what I said about the public being played for chumps. Yes, you can accuse me of trying to hawk my book (I only gave you a taste of it here. I put together a lot more on Thoresen, much of it documented with never been seen before stuff. It’s not much more than the price of a couple of beers.) But at least you know I’m not some spook who is probably being paid to post this crap in order to keep you from learning Thoresen was Zodiac, and a whole lot more, eh? A recent reader review: Bob S. 5.0 out of 5 stars New Zodiac candidate you've never heard about.... Reviewed in the United States on June 17, 2020 Verified Purchase Any true crime fan needs to get acquainted with the strange life and history of William Thoresen, arguably one of the most under-the-radar psychopaths in the annals of crime. Author Glenn Wall's first book introduces the reader to Thoresen in his terrific book, "Sympathy Vote - The Reinvestigation of the Valerie Percy murder", the baffling murder of the daughter of soon to be Senator Charles Percy in 1966. As a young boy living in the Chicagoland area, I vividly remember the fear and fascination this horrific murder had and continues to have, as the case has inexplicably never been solved. Wall presents a compelling case for suspecting that Thoresen was the shadowy figure seen in the bedroom on that tragic night. A person of means,Thoresen was the son of a wealthy family living just blocks from the Percy residence and was well known to the local police. Wall's follow-up book, "Zodiac Maniac" continues to follow Thoresen's travels through other suspected crimes/murders and his curious hobby of collecting roomfuls of old WWII era weapons. His wealth leads to a new life in Northern California, which becomes the backdrop for another unsolved string of crimes, the notorious Zodiac murders. Now, the author presents a new Zodiac candidate who never was considered due a fascinating mixture of legal maneuvering thanks to wealth, bureaucratic bungling, federal vs state/local inter-department non-cooperation and good ol' cover your ass incompetence. I recommend picking up both books. You'll not want to put them down. www.amazon.com/Zodiac-Maniac-Secret-History-Killer ebook/dp/B07XYDYWQT/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1590026275&sr=8-1
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Post by ophion1031 on Aug 16, 2020 21:16:56 GMT -8
A lot of people have written off Kane lately because Galaxie500 tracked down a couple of records of Larry Kane speaking and they have eliminated him because of his voice. These recordings were before his accident, which obviously affected his speech, bu I don't necessarily think he should be completely discounted because of his voice. He is a pretty decent suspect.
OH... A good friend of mine is in San Francisco on vacation and is going to try to get some photos of Thoresen's mansion, Kjell Qvale's home, and the Stine murder site.
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Post by ophion1031 on Aug 16, 2020 22:17:02 GMT -8
zodiacmaniac I know this is a long shot, but would you happen to have any contact information for Thoresen's son, Michael? I was thinking about contacting him to see if he would be willing to answer some questions. I know he was very young at the time, but he may have some stories to tell that we have never seen/heard before. I'm having a little bit of writer's block with my screenplay. Well, not so much writer's block, but just having trouble figuring out how to tell a story that is loosely based on actual events. I have OCD when it comes to things being neat and orderly, so writing this has been a challenge. I try to picture all of the Thoresen stories as if I am there witnessing them in person, and the one that really sticks out to me is when he was confronted by the FBI in New York when they tried to interview him about the Valerie Percy murder. He said "I'm going to get my lawyer" and stormed off. This doesn't make sense to me. Why did they not take him into custody and conduct the interview? After all, he was a suspect! But they just let him walk away. And to my knowledge, he was never interviewed about the murder after that. I am 100% convinced that he did kill Valerie. How do we prove it? Does Kenilworth PD have any DNA that can by tested? I doubt that Michael would be willing to provide DNA, but it could be worth a shot.
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Post by zodiacmaniac on Aug 18, 2020 15:22:48 GMT -8
Ive seen people write off Kane entirely on the basis that he was too short. I think if you read my book you would see there is irrefutable evidence he killed Valerie, and was Zodiac. Two unique articles of evidence at the Percy crime scene tie him to the Lake Berryessa attacks, another to Zodiac’s letters. Long ago, before I had any inkling of him re: Zodiac, I passed on contact info on his son to media sources who were intent on contacting him. I am still in touch with those sources but they’ve been mum on him. I know what he looks like. I don’t like to bring an innocent person into anything like this but he’s a dead ringer for the barrel chested suspect seen near the Stein crime scene. In other news there may be a Percy case story in the news soon that may include info on Thoresen.
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