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Post by ophion1031 on Sept 8, 2018 21:33:46 GMT -8
This attack is very similar to that of Domingos/Edwards, and was somewhat in the same area. *The following are courtesy of Galaxie500 Taken from Zodiac Revisited zodiacrevisited.com/a-san-diego-riverside-connection:"For many years now, I've been of the opinion that the man who would later go on to become the Zodiac murdered not only Robert Domingos, Linda Edwards, and Cheri Jo Bates, but also Johnny Ray and Joyce Ann Swindle. The Swindles were from Jasper, Alabama. At seventeen years old, Johnny Ray joined the Navy. By the time 1963 was turning to 1964, the sailor's initial enlistment was coming to an end. Johnny Ray decided to re-up. With his re-enlistment bonus in hand, he took his accumulated vacation, went back to Jasper, married his high-school sweetheart, Joyce, and brought her back to San Diego. Joyce was fascinated by the Pacific Ocean and hence the couple made it a point to go for a walk along the beach every night. By February 5th, less than three weeks after the small wedding in Jasper, Alabama, the newlywed's honeymoon was coming to an end. Johnny Ray had orders to report for duty on the seventh. In particular, the couple would be apart for their first Valentine's day as husband and wife. Likely in recognition of these bittersweet circumstances, Johnny Ray bought Joyce some candy at one of the stores on the path of their nightly stroll. The two made their way to a retaining wall on the beach and began to share the candy as they took in the nighttime beauty of the Pacific Ocean. Sadly, a gunman hidden in a make-shift sniper's nest put a permanent end to newlywed's hopes and dreams. Both Johnny Ray and Joyce were shot with .22 long-rifle, hollow-point bullets. Once incapacitated, the gunman approached and shot each in the head at point-blank range. Joyce died quickly. Remarkably, Johnny Ray held on two to three hours before succumbing to his wounds. From early on, it was well documented that the killer took Johnny Ray's wallet. However, in doing some research recently, I came across a tidbit that may have some meaningful implications. Specifically, the February 23, 1964 San Diego Union newspaper had an article which included the following two paragraphs: The killer almost certainly took the sailor's wristwatch. But that's not all. The situation becomes even more interesting when we consider how Johnny Ray spent the last day of his life: he was painting for several hours. In particular, he went to his landlady and asked if there was anything he could do to earn some extra money. She put him to work painting an apartment. So, are there any references to paint-splattered watches in the remainder of the extended Zodiac crimes (the canonical Zodiac crimes plus the Southern California murders)? Indeed there are. In the very next crime, i.e. the murder of Cheri Jo Bates some two years and nine months later, investigators found a watch at the crime scene--a watch which is documented as having paint on it. The watch band was broken and most people, understandably, believe it was worn by the perpetrator and torn off by Cheri Jo when she fiercely fought back against her attacker. But, what if this watch was never owned by the killer? Rather, what if he left it at the crime scene specifically to confuse the investigation?"
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sandyb1
New Member
Long time researcher on Zodiac, stalked by man who claims to be Zodiac. Obsessed with each other.
Posts: 22
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Post by sandyb1 on Dec 21, 2019 10:48:24 GMT -8
I posted about that at Morfs and at Tom's this past year. It started with the Celebrity cipher card that was sent to the Vallejo Times Herald on Sept 25th 1990. ( Two days before the 21st anniversary of Lake Berryessa murder) On the card were the words "Sandy Beaches", the picture showed a white sandy beach with driftwood in the foreground. My dear friend Lyndon Lafferty told me he was shown the card by a friend of his at VPD. That it said "Ocean Beach Ca". There are a few Ocean beaches, but the only one that has white sand is the Ocean Beach in San Diego. That is how I thought about the Swindle case at Ocean Beach.The stamp that was chosen for the card was a Marianne Moore stamp who was a editor and poet, she died "Feb 5th" 1972. (Feb 5th 1964 was the date the Swindles were murdered). Was Zodiac giving us a clue to that murder? I believe he was and that he was the person who took Johnny's wrist watch. That was when I thought about the paint on the watch found at Cheri Jo's crime scene and felt it may have been Johnny's watch? I do not believe the killer left the watch there on purpose, it is obvious that Cheri Jo pulled it off while fighting for her life. I went to San Diego to investigate their murder about 10 yrs ago, saw their apt and where I believe the killer hid to shoot them. I have written to the card company to see if I could get a copy of that card? They no longer have any copies , so I tried to find the person who took the picture? No luck so far. I trust what Lyndon told me about the beach being Ocean Beach and that it showed driftwood on the beach. I do believe Zodiac was still alive and living in Vallejo when he sent that card. Sending that card with that stamp is something that only the Zodiac would have thought to do. He could be responsible for other beach murders, or he was giving a warning that he was hunting couples at beaches on the coast of Calif.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 21, 2019 11:25:55 GMT -8
I know the slightest of basics of this case but really nothing much. I need to really get familiar with it. I have researched the Sandy Beaches card and the stamp. I do believe that stamp has to do with Marianne Wizard, involved with anti-war movement at the time. She and Larry Waterhouse were involved over at Fort Ord and it turned into a movement that reached clear into Viet-Nam, sending underground newspapers all over the USA and viet nam to help soldiers who were complaining about the war and also the Presidio 14 that were charged with Mutiny. All this on other threads so I won't clutter up this thread with any more of that discussion. Here are the threads of some of my thoughts on this idea. Tearing Apart Celebrity Cypher/ Sandy Beaches Card 9/25/70theslaughterhouse.freeforums.net/post/new/149Marriann Wizard - Turn Guns Around - Notes On Gi Movementtheslaughterhouse.freeforums.net/thread/405/mariann-wizard-turn-notes-movementTearing Apart Personal Ad - Deep Real Estate Imperial Wizardtheslaughterhouse.freeforums.net/thread/389/tearing-personal-estate-imperial-wizardI really think we are going to have to somehow go through every communications and tear them all apart and then piece them all together. It seems that information on one thing is constantly scattered between several communications, and until we have them all torn apart we are missing pieces; but I think all the pieces are there, they are just scattered from one communications to another... they are time-bound(one building on the other). Once we tear one apart, we can go back and fit that info in with another and so on. Takes a world of time, but I think it is the only way we are ever going to figure all this out. But I really do think it can be done.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 21, 2019 11:41:36 GMT -8
I posted about that at Morfs and at Tom's this past year. It started with the Celebrity cipher card that was sent to the Vallejo Times Herald on Sept 25th 1990. ( Two days before the 21st anniversary of Lake Berryessa murder) On the card were the words "Sandy Beaches", the picture showed a white sandy beach with driftwood in the foreground. My dear friend Lyndon Lafferty told me he was shown the card by a friend of his at VPD. That it said "Ocean Beach Ca". There are a few Ocean beaches, but the only one that has white sand is the Ocean Beach in San Diego. That is how I thought about the Swindle case at Ocean Beach.The stamp that was chosen for the card was a Marianne Moore stamp who was a editor and poet, she died "Feb 5th" 1972. (Feb 5th 1964 was the date the Swindles were murdered). Was Zodiac giving us a clue to that murder? I believe he was and that he was the person who took Johnny's wrist watch. That was when I thought about the paint on the watch found at Cheri Jo's crime scene and felt it may have been Johnny's watch? I do not believe the killer left the watch there on purpose, it is obvious that Cheri Jo pulled it off while fighting for her life. I went to San Diego to investigate their murder about 10 yrs ago, saw their apt and where I believe the killer hid to shoot them. I have written to the card company to see if I could get a copy of that card? They no longer have any copies , so I tried to find the person who took the picture? No luck so far. I trust what Lyndon told me about the beach being Ocean Beach and that it showed driftwood on the beach. I do believe Zodiac was still alive and living in Vallejo when he sent that card. Sending that card with that stamp is something that only the Zodiac would have thought to do. He could be responsible for other beach murders, or he was giving a warning that he was hunting couples at beaches on the coast of Calif. ___________________ Sandy...... Boy I wish we could find that Sandy Beaches Card. I know you have probably looked all over heck and back for that card. I'll try to help look for one. I probably will not be successful either, but I'll try to help find one. In your research have you seen any evidence at all that the Swindles were in any way connected to "any" of the "college groups" who were Anit-war, civil rights related, etc; anything at all that might make them a target by someone who was against all of these "revolutionary" type factions. even if it was only "sympathizers". I'm finding that all through these murders. It is becoming a common thread in them. last night I finally went through the desk top poem and I have a much better understanding of Cheri Jo Bates murder. It is hard for me to explain it all but here is a thread where I was working on that last night... and about the watch also. It's so complicated at this moment it is hard for me to explain all this to anyone. but if we can figure out WHY OCEAN BEACHES card, rather than the one we have on the Carmel Beach(that someone found that card of that series of cards), then maybe this will make more sense. I'll try to get some time to look at the Swindle murders in depth and see if I can find a tie to anything, radical factions on one side or the other. I know it does not make any sense to anyone at this time, but eventually, I'll be able to explain this better. In the meantime, I also think the paint on the watch really seems to show this is the same watch at the Cheri Jo Bates murder. It would really be flukey if not. And the desk top poem is definitely talking about the watch and some paperwork file that cheri Jo Bates was working on, that "someone" took. and the desk top poem mentions SDS... here is the thread I was working on all of this last night, and I'm going to be explaining this better today. Tearing Apart The Desk Top Poemtheslaughterhouse.freeforums.net/thread/441/tearing-apart-desk-top-poemI'll try to go through the Swindle murders very soon and see if I can tie them to anything that is a common denominator to any of the other factions. that stamp, connected to marrianne Moore(I think meaning Marrianne Wizard) and the MORE in cheri jo bates letter, probably meaning MOORE. it is all tying together. Of course I'm a coder so I look at all these communications and the codes in them. So I see this stuff. Once I get more of this all out there and explained, then it will make more sense.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 21, 2019 12:07:48 GMT -8
I'm reading all of the news articles right now and will make some quick notes and then I'll work on this elsewhere in a specific thread so I don't clutter up this thread with "stuff" no one understands but me. but here are a few things I'll work on
help find the OCEAN BEACHES card with driftwood. why driftwood card? why choose that? Johnny Ray Swindle (victim) wallet and wrist watch missing(could be the one found at cheri jo bates murder with paint on it) From Jasper, Alabama. Joined the Navy at 17.. His enlistment ran out and he re-upped. initial enlistment was coming to an end. Was in San Diego, went back on vacation married Joyce, then they came back to San Diego help find the OCEAN BEACHES card with driftwood. why driftwood card? why choose that? Valetines Candy (if they did not buy it, then what would it mean) If left by the killer what happened on Valentine's day? did someone have that last name? is this about LOVERS? hmmm VAL entine the couple were married in Jasper Alabama( what was going on back there that they might be connected to?) Michael Patrick Moeller who had the air tight alibi, from TEXAS - need to see who he knows, as Larry Waterhouse and Marianne Wizard are from TX see if any connections with them and who else. Moeller from US Air Force Armarillo TX and was there on feb 7, 1964 Larry Waterhouse and Marianned Wizard were still in Texas at the time of this murder(so it should not have anything to do with them at the time they were were around Fort Ord or really involved in the underground GI papers, but what were these two doing in Texas at the time Johnny Ray Swindle was in Amarillo< I need to check) Wayne David Chandler 6612 anthony st. , sniper in san diego shot at 3 people and then killed himself(hmm) people shot at Bruce Gearhart(student), leroy kenneth day, cafe worker, Terri G Davis, construction worker.. all live at a Mission St apt. sniper ran to Catamaran Hotel Chapel at Mission Beach. police picked up two of the people who were shot at and the 3rd down the street somewhere(so if they all live in the Mission Apts, why were they shot at in different places? flukey? .... pistol was a .38 matching one stolen 3 weeks prior at Garden Grove. killed himself sept 1966, in the news on sept 29, 1966, not sure if that is the exact date of the killing himself though? he was assistand manager at the Safeway Supermarket in the Orange County Plaza... why did he rob his work of 1200.00? if he was going to commit suicide? I'm going to start a separate thread for tearing this all apart, as I go through too much gobbly-gook and do not want to clutter this thread. anything important for sure I'll come back and add to this thread, less the gobbly gook. No one wants to have to read gobbly-gook in this thread so I'll do that on this thread belowTearing Apart the Swindle Murderstheslaughterhouse.freeforums.net/thread/442/tearing-apart-swindle-murders
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sandyb1
New Member
Long time researcher on Zodiac, stalked by man who claims to be Zodiac. Obsessed with each other.
Posts: 22
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Post by sandyb1 on Dec 21, 2019 21:47:45 GMT -8
Not sure why you think Marianne Moore was really Marianne Wizard? The person who found a card by the same company (John Hinde Curteich Co) didn't know that the beach on that card was actually Carmel Beach. I recognized that beach because I have been there , so I found a picture to post ,to prove that was the name of the beach on the card that person found.
There was not driftwood on Carmel beach is how I knew it was the wrong beach. Each card had a ID number, he found one with the correct number, but what he didn't know is that the Sandy Beach cards were a series of 5 or 6 cards and all of them had the same number for that series. You asked why Zodiac chose that particular card? I thought I gave a pretty good theory of why that card? It was to give a clue to killing the Swindles! Ocean Beach San Diego is where they were killed, not Carmel beach. The Stamp was chosen to give yet another clue to the Swindle's "FEB 5TH"death date for Marianne Moore, was a connection to the date they were murdered.
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sandyb1
New Member
Long time researcher on Zodiac, stalked by man who claims to be Zodiac. Obsessed with each other.
Posts: 22
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Post by sandyb1 on Dec 21, 2019 22:11:21 GMT -8
Marianne Moore was born Nov 15 1887 near Saint Louis Mo, Mariann Wizard was born Sept 30th 1946 in Fort Worth Texas. No way are they the same person, lets not confuse the two.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 21, 2019 23:51:07 GMT -8
Marianne Moore was born Nov 15 1887 near Saint Louis Mo, Mariann Wizard was born Sept 30th 1946 in Fort Worth Texas. No way are they the same person, lets not confuse the two. ____________ oh I know they are not the same person at all. I probably confused you with what I didn't explain that I was working on. and I know that card is carmel been there a million times myself. I'm from there originally. Marriann wizard has a totally different connection to something I'm working on. sorry I confused you.
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