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Post by ophion1031 on Dec 8, 2019 23:22:09 GMT -8
There has been talk over the years about Darlene Ferrin being a small time pot dealer that was being supplied by someone that was part of a large drug and counterfeiting ring. There has also been rumors of David Faraday possibly having a confrontation with a drug dealer shortly before his death. If either of these are true, they may or may not be related. So this thread is to discuss, well, basically anything drug related that could have been tied in to the Zodiac case. Also counterfeiting rings, stolen weapons and things of that nature can be discussed here.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 8, 2019 23:33:43 GMT -8
Well I was posting to Ophion over on another thread, not meant for this info, so we are bringing it over here. anyway here was my post. Ophion was wondering about where in Cali he had heard there were guns stolen out of an army base. I had remembered about Fort Ord and a few other large gun jackings, and also in that was involved drugs being ran out of Fort Ord, so I guess I'll just copy everything from the other thread to here that I posted there. I don't know if this had anything at all to do with Zodiac, but we were talking about Thorensen and his probably buying guns and selling them to the Minutemen. And being both Ophion and I think the Minutemen have something to do with Zodiac, we are going to post anything with drugs here. This also had to do with a lot of guns, but also when they were stealing guns and ammo out of Fort Ord, they were also running drugs out of there. They got caught and most everyone is dead not so I'll talk about this. here is what I had posted over on the other thread... Ophion had posted :Thoresen wasn't a member of the Minutemen as far as I know, he he was selling them weapons. I have heard that he was selling to other groups as well but have not seen proof of that just yet. A while back we were talking about Thoresen possibly possessing weapons that were stolen from a military base, and that wouldn't surprise me one bit, but I don't think any of the weapons he got busted with were from military bases. I had a brief conversation with someone on another site years ago about stolen military weapons and I remember discussing one particular base in California. I forget the name of the base, but I will see if I can find that thread again. ____________ and I had answered Ophion's post with this. I know guns and ammo were being stolen from Fort Ord, Monterey, CA. I know that personally. And they were running drugs out of the base there and several of them got caught, so there should be some article about it somewhere. this was probably around hmmmm 1968 maybe... maybe 69. I'm not sure. I'm thinking maybe, but not sure I am remembering this right, Eddie Mellowas involved in that... Or it might have been Larry Sales(but he was in with the Mutiny charges at the Presidio on SF, so i don't know if he was over involved in the Fort Ord Gun thing, but I really thought i remember he was. And then there were a bunch of guns, ammo, grenades and a TANK stolen out of the modesto Armory back in hmmm 1969? might have been 68. They got arrested so might be some articles on that, i am sure there is something as they were all charged in Federal Court. Would have been Floyd Jordan, Michael Raya, Gene Flemming, Ricky Grayson, someone else and can't remember. Then were was a cache of guns up in oregon back in about 76 maybe, up around Grants Pass/Eagles Point. Buried up there. I don't know whatever became of that, but it had to do with Manson. And then there were a bunch tossed off a train white it was going over the pass to Boise Idaho. Those are probably still out there somewhere haha. My brother-in-law is dead now, so I can say it, he and his wife tossed out a whole freight car load going over the pass. Trying to remember what year that was. hmmm probably, in the 70's sometime, I can't remember. Hmm trying to find anything on it... I did find this... Life Magazine Article April 4, 1969 Someone was saying guns stolen from Fort Ord were being sold to the Minutemen. then the dang page is gone and can't read the rest. LINK TO MAGAZINE ARTICLE
This must not be about the same thing? they did end up arresting a bunch of people over that, a few I knew. but maybe they finally caught them later. hmm I wonder who this Johnson guy is who was telling on them. hmmm.
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Post by ophion1031 on Dec 9, 2019 0:08:55 GMT -8
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Post by amazingates on Dec 9, 2019 16:05:29 GMT -8
okay I think everyone is dead by now that had anything to do with this, so I'll talk about the "surface" part of this. There was a set of plates floating around for a long time. I knew about them in 1972. but the person who had them at that time I think had them for a very long time. (some really older people had them) Here is what happened. back ages ago the plates were actually engraved by the master engraver(who engraved the plates for the US treasury). Well, one of the master engravers made a second set of plates. I don't know who he was or how long ago these were actually made, but they were in the hands of someone I knew. Around 1972 or so, someone got ahold of them and decided to go hog wild with them. They were perfect and passed easily, even to banks, because they were the same exactly made plates. so a lot of the money was passed up through the casinos in the 70's. Finally, someone got killed over them because they were carrying a ton of money on them and was set up to get robbed. The person fought the robbers and was shot and killed. I don't think the plates were ever found. I know in 1976 the treasury dept was dead after these plates and whoever had the money. Treasury dept was even dead on my ass over it, thinking I had them, I didn't. I refused to have anything to do with them. i just laughed and told the treasury dept they were crazy, that I never heard of anything like that.
So I don't know exactly how long these plates were out there, or when someone really started using them, or to what extent they used them in what years. But I was told about them around 72 and asked to keep them, I said no. It was not too long after(a few years) that someone was killed over them. I don't know if these plates had been used before this or where if they were. But it was something that a lot of people did not know about.
I will say this though, they were in the same neighborhood where Joe Stine lived LOL. just a fluke though. I am sure he knew nothing about them. I really doubt anyone did.
Now something else about counterfieting. I do remember there was a forgery ring going on in the mid 60's, tied to an after hours bar up in SF. I don't know the name of the bar. But the people were making ID's, making checks and this was a big ring. And the knew the people who whose family had the engraved money plates. The families were intermarried. one of the people sometime in the 60' was in another state(not saying which one) traveling through and got caught with a trunkload of this stuff. They were put in jail (without being charged) kept there and told they would rot and die in there if they did not say where they got this stuff. I new this person well. They would not say anything and it took forever to get the attorney general to get that person out of that jail. They really almost died in there, without ever being charged. This person was living up in san fran and back and forth from there to the valley, across states, everywhere. why they were in that state with that stuff I don't know. I knew them from cali. I actually at the time knew one of their "partners" who use to make ID for us then, when I was still a teenager. Then a couple of years later I met this other guy and knew him very very well for decades. He's dead now or I would not be talking about this. In fact they are all dead now. But I do know that money ring was working out of the san fran area and tied to an after hours bar up there. It's possible Darlene and/or Jim got involved with those people. Most likely not, but you never know.
some years later one of the other people who was related to both sides of this family, ended up getting killed over a dang set-up robbery as well. Its possible he ened up with those plates, they definitely would have trusted him with them. I remember in 1980 he was arrested with an assassination kit, or they were calling it that. He'd already been in trouble for a murder (I can't go into the story of that) but he did a ton of years on it and his partner never got out. Legit reason he got out but can't say why or it will identify them and i can't do that that on here. it took a ton of money to get this person a new trial and prove he did not "kill' the guy. But it worked and he was released after a LOT of years, and he had not been out long with he was busted with the assassination kit. I think he just had a break down gun in a suitcase and they tried to make a big deal out of it because of his past. but anyway, was very close to the after hours bar and the guy who was arrested with the trunk load of money, checks, ID and check making stuff. so at that time the feds were totally after a lot of people over this. Now these two people were really quiet, but they were dealing with another person who was not. I use to go to the house of the other person and there were always a ton of people over there getting id's, checks, drugs etc, and that other guy just let all kinds of people know what he was doing. but I don't think he knew about the money plates, that info was kept "in the family" as far as anyone knowing where the money was actually coming from. But it is very possible it got up there in the SF area from the people in the after hours bar. that was quite a few years before I knew about it and was offered the plates.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 9, 2019 16:07:38 GMT -8
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Post by amazingates on Dec 9, 2019 16:29:20 GMT -8
I'm looking for newspaper articles now but not having any luck so far. The only thing I can find is a book that mentions grenades being thrown at police officers by members of the Black Liberation Army. The grenades were supposedly stolen from Fort Ord. I haven't found what year that happened. EDIT: Here is a book that has a little bit of information - books.google.com/books?id=7IuuuDKKyccC&pg=PA6483&lpg=PA6483&dq=stolen+weapons+from+fort+ord&source=bl&ots=T_FdsmYF_P&sig=ACfU3U3bACiPo43pO-S3tp_xtFACHJx_iA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwit77yVjqjmAhVBWqwKHRU8CEkQ6AEwDnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=stolen%20weapons%20from%20fort%20ord&f=falseIt mentions the MDM, or Movement for a Democratic Military. The group was formed in 1969 and was only around until about 1975. ______________________ oh hell yes, that is it... i totally remember all of this... ... I thought it was 1969 but it might have been in 1970 when a someone came from Fort Ord who was there during all of this and was telling me all about all of this. They were one of the people involved in this along with some other people I knew. but if it was 70, it had to be early on in 70 because I know I was still in my mid teens then.it's possible it had been going on for some time and the army base had not caught on til 70, because I know a lot more guns etc were stolen that a few.I think . when they caught them, if I remember right, someone got caught with a locker full of guns and drugs. That was someone I knew. now here is something... I know I just read, and I posted it with the DEEP REAL ESTATE AD/Imperial Wizard CARD... that Mariann WIZARD was really instrumental in all of this anti war stuff going on to the fort ord base. so I wonder if she pops up in this book you just poster...her and larry Waterhouse. I was thinking she might just be the imperial wizard in the Deep Real Estate/Imperial Wizard card. ... let's see if her name pops up in the book you just gave the link to. I met some of these poeple . connected to her in santa cruz in 1972-73. I did not know who they were at the time, they were just giving me some legal advice haha. but they were really good and told me how to get around a lot of legal crap I needed help with. so reading here on this link you posted for this book... they never firgured out some of the people involved in this? hmmm well I know any names I posted, they actually got in trouble for all this and were on the front pages of the Modesto Bee. I can't find the articles anywhere, but it was huge news back then. wait a minute... thinking about this some more. it had to be in about august of 69 I first heard about this. It would not have been before summer of 69, and it would not have been too long after that. It could have been pretty early 70... but I know how old I was then, and it was not late 70 that I knew about it. let me go dig out some old photos with dates on the back of photos and then I can tell you exactly when it was i first new about all of this.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 9, 2019 17:04:20 GMT -8
okay I'm going to just say this out here. the guy caught out of state with the check and ID making equipment etc, was at fort ord, he went awol, along with another guy I knew. they had them in the brig and the guy who got caught out of state got into it with one of the military uppity-ups and they got in a fist fight and my friend broke the guys jaw, but my friend had his arm broke. My friend was courtmartialed and spent months in the brig. My other friend(they both knew each other since kids) was in the brig as well. I don't even know how they got out of there, but they both ended up back home. one stayed around for a few years on the run, finally got caught and got a dishonorable discharge. The other one with the broken arm was arrested out of state still with his arm broke, and they kept him in that jail like that and was starving him to death in the hole. his family finally got the attorney general of cali to step in and got him out of there. he was in there for like 8 months I think he told me. anyway one day he pops back up home again, and that was in the 70's, I had just come back from Santa Cruz. I was in a lot of crap by then so we all took off to northern cali. We ended up hiding in a fruit orchard (haha) and that is when the other guy popped up and got caught with the assassination kit etc. That was too F'ing weird. We are way the hell out there in a dang fruit field. We were all hiding out there. haha. We were living with a bunch of "fruit tramps" as they never tell anything, and started traveling all over the "fruit circuit" so we could get money and still "run". I ended up all over cali, oregon and washington, and our friend ended up all over the usa, and then we would all come back meet up at safe places. during these years we were ripping off the banks and I got busted in the 80's when my sister-in-law told them who I was. I had fake ID and they did not know who I was but she told them. So I went to prison. I had been on the run for 12 years.
so anyway, yes, there was money and checks and ID floating all over the place. not just some little no-nothing few people with some bad money. This was huge, the treasury dept was after me. We had a federal tail on us for ages, and this is why I know so much. i grew up on the streets with all of these older people since I was 11 yrs old. So a lot of stuff I know about, some I can talk about(if people are dead now) and some I can't. I don't know this stuff from reading it or having documented proof, I know it from "living" it. So it is a bit tricky for me to get out here and try to make sense of some things because there is just a lot I can't and will not say. But there is also a lot I CAN say. I've been sitting here for decades not saying a word, but now that so many people are dead, there are some things I'll say... I can't get in trouble myself because when I went to prison I filed a 1381...that is where if you are sentenced . to prison you can file and tell them everything you did and they have 90 days to get you to wherever you did something and get you through court. There was no way in heck they could get me to all those counties in those states and get me sentenced within 90 days and I knew that...so I went for it and admitted anything I knew they could find out about me later on. They did manage to get me to the second county before I could get it filed, but after that they could not get me anywhere so I would just go in, agree to plead guilty if they would run my time concurrent with my previous prison sentence. This got me shuffled through 11 counties before they ran out of time. And all the rest had to drop anything because time was up. So all these money crimes etc and bank stuff etc, was all over through the 1381. That way when I did finally walk out I did not have all this crap hanging over my head and end up arrested later on down the line. So I can talk about all that without worrying about any of it. But other stuff I will talk about only if the people are DEAD. If not, I won't because they can still get arrested. And I'm just not going to do that.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 9, 2019 17:51:13 GMT -8
Now the people who robbed the Modesto Armory were caught. They ended up selling stuff to undercover agents and we all thought one of them ended up knowingly bringing the agent around and the others got caught with guns, grenades and a tank. no one was ever quite sure if someone actually brought the agent around on purpose but it was suspsected. they were in federal court over this for a long time and one ended up in leavenworth and I don't remember what all happened to who... but that was all really screwed up... At the time I was not involved in that, I was doing my own stuff just running guns to radical groups but I was selling guns to the family of one of these people involved in the Modesto Amory theft. I was still a kid for the most part. I did not think like a kid, but I looked like one and in years I was, so I could come and go just about anywhere. I was a go between from one group to another because a lot of these groups did not get along at all, but I could walk in and out without a problem because I was a kid. So I was in and about all of these radical groups, running drugs and guns... So I do have a good understanding of what all was going on at the time. i knew a lot of people going back and forth from the valley to san fran and berkeley. There were a lot of ties back and forth. And the route back and forth was right there 132/maze, you basically had to go that way to get there... and I really do believe zodiac was traveling that road quite a bit. I believe Zodiac has ties to modesto, ceres, keyes, hughson, turlock, stevinson, hilmar all through there.
So many of the drugs coming into the valley at that time were coming out of The Haight, Berkeley, Daly City, Antioch, Hayward; and then of course we had the old Mexican mafia all over with the heroin. And most of the weed was coming from the illegal Mexican nationals working on the valley farms. The opium was coming out of San Fran. And then you had all of the drug store/pharmacy robberies for all the class A script narcotics. And all of the "chicken" crank was coming in from Arkansas or right there from some of the chicken ranches in the valley right there, all the way up into Oregon, and over into Hollister. Methadrine was the big deal then still, but heroin was starting to take over. Modesto was the "HUB" for drug trafficking from the bay area to the valley.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 9, 2019 19:04:56 GMT -8
Man I have not thought about some of this in ages. I remember a 50 caliber out at fox grove shooting the hell out of stuff. I don't remember if that was from Modesto Armory or if that came from somewhere else. It might help to know where a 50 caliber was stolen from to figure out where this stuff all was going and who was robbing what. Then it might give us a tie to if any of this stuff could be connected to Zodiac.
Now if you think about all of this stuff, and you realize just how young I was... then compare that to the z victims, and we think of them as kids who would not know anything, but truth is, during those years, kids could know things. No one treated me like a kid. I was right there in the midst of everything and I was not as old as the z victims... so why would we think they can't know anything or be around people who are into drugs and guns and robberies and counterfeiting. I'm not the ONLY kid who was out there in that life. So to think they could not have known something or be involved, is really naive on our parts. Not saying they were involved in anything, but they certainly could have been. They could have easily been with someone and heard something they should not have and then talked about it. they could have been somewhere and saw something they should not have.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 18:50:49 GMT -8
I just remembered. there was some other counterfeit money floating around in 1967. it was not the same money, it was pretty bad really. I got caught with some of it. I think I had like a few hundred dollars of 20's. I tried passing some of it at a snow white drive in and I got caught. I was outside eating and the cops pulled up and got me. the snow white had called the cops on me. So I had like another 2 more 20's on me and told them I got it at the bank. so they take me to my house and found the rest of it. I told them I had cashed my VA benefits from my dad and the bank had paid me the money. I had actually cashed my benefit va check from my dad that morning and the bank said I had, so they let me go. That money came out of Ceres Ca. And actually I think that person might have brought it back from the bay area, as they had just got back from there. But that money was pretty dang bad, that is why I took it to a snow white, thinking those young kids working there would not notice so much... but the owner was there and caught it.
Makes you wonder if maybe the bay area money someone got caught with some of it and told? and it is very possible someone had kids out running that money. Or tried to pay someone with bad money and someone noticed it and was talking about it?
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 19:01:43 GMT -8
sandy posted that Darlene was involved with people who were into drugs and counterfeiting and the counterfeiting had something to do with Chicago. I don't remember anything at all about anything I knew about people out of chicago at that time. but maybe we can find something online in the news etc.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 20:01:07 GMT -8
ok I know at one time people said JC/P had a fit because his name was posted out on the forums... so I don't know what all I can really post out here.
But I was looking around and ran into info that JC/p ------ was in some type of trouble with the army, confined to stockade at the Presidio in SF. went on hunger strike there and received dishonorable discharge. Is that when Larry Sales was there too? He was also in that mess with the hunger strike and the mutiny.
Did larry sales know JCP?
Question for Sandy.... do you know anything about JC/P being in the stockage at the presidio, and what year that would have been. And was that part of when they all went on a hunger strike during the mutiny charges? Larry was at fort ord in that gun theft stuff etc, but I found him on the news articles as being in the Mutiny hearings also and he was in the presidio stockade at that time.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 20:25:59 GMT -8
ok here is a link to an article all about the Mutiny, in which Larry Sales is mentioned, however, it mentions nothing of his ever being at fort ord. that does not make sense to me. Also I see that he was in the Modesto State Hospital in 1967 and after that he joined the Army.. why would they have wanted to keep him there FOREVER, they make his sound like some whackjob; he wasn't. He was just a kid who got in a lot of trouble, like everyone of us. Of course back then it was pretty common to end up in the state hospital for nothing. And a lot of people went there on purpose just so they would not get sent to the Youth Authority. I know for a fact he was involved in the fort ord stolen guns and drugs. so why is that not mentioned. Sometimes I think the articles and reports are full of it. Article about Larry Sales at the presidio mutiny.www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Presidio_Mutiny_of_1968I notice there is a photo in that article from Good Times I did not see JC/P mentioned in there but it says a lot of the people were not out there in the "sit down" update:
okay, I found more info now. THEY WERE at Fort Ord Just like I thought, I guess later they were transferred over to the stockade at the Presidio. But this started at Fort Ord.
The 27 were part of the Mutiny, but 14 are being tried at fort ord. These articles make is confusing. But I know Larry Sales was at Fort Ord In part of the Guns & Drugs and I remember when I saw him in Modesto he even had the Modesto Bee and he was on the Front Page, and he was showing it to me. And his name was in huge letters all the was across the front page. I still can't be sure of the date when I saw him and that news article he had. So I know that there is a Modesto Bee Article with all this gun and drugs stuff in it. But I can't find the article.
also these articles below are on the "AS YOU WERE" press for the GI's and anti-war protests of which Mariann Wizard had a hand in. And I'm wondering if she is not the Imperial Wizard on the DEEP REAL ESTATE AD for zodiac. there is another thread for that.
AS YOU WERE PRESS - Read more of the articles on this link voices.revealdigital.org/?a=d&d=DADCCCIC19690401.1.1&e=-------en-20--1--txt-txIN---------------1
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 21:12:25 GMT -8
If anyone has access to the Modesto Bee, 1968-70... can someone please try to find the Fort Ord Guns & Drugs and look under the name Larry Lee Sales, Modesto CA... It was front page news all across the whole front page. I can't find it.
I know for sure it exists because larry Sales himself had it with him when I saw him and he showed it to me.
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Post by ophion1031 on Dec 10, 2019 21:50:39 GMT -8
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Post by ophion1031 on Dec 10, 2019 22:24:17 GMT -8
If anyone has access to the Modesto Bee, 1968-70... can someone please try to find the Fort Ord Guns & Drugs and look under the name Larry Lee Sales, Modesto CA... It was front page news all across the whole front page. I can't find it. I know for sure it exists because larry Sales himself had it with him when I saw him and he showed it to me. I wish I had access to newspapers.com still, but it was too expensive so I got rid of it. Took me quite a while to read all of your posts because of work, but it's all very interesting. I will try to find out more about Larry Sales as well. One thing I have been wondering is about the Napa Co Sheriffs Dept being involved in a drug and/or counterfeiting ring.
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