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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 12:03:33 GMT -8
Sandy Betts' POI Group - RH, Honcho & Others
Sandy Betts believes there is a group (at least a few) people who are connected to Zodiac. I am starting this thread to keep all the related info to that in one thread so we can work on this and not have all the info scattered all over the place in other threads. I want to try to help her figure out exactly who these people are and who they are connected to. She believes Darlene Ferrin new one of them and that Darlene Ferrin was killed because Darlene saw one of the kill someone in the Virgin Islands.
I have a lot of questions and I want to see if any of this group is connected to any of the other POI's in this case.
there were a few posts in another thread I brought over here, so they would not get lost in other threads.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 12:08:44 GMT -8
I'm just going to copy over a couple of posts from another thread, so we have the info over here. Sandy posted....I am not an expert by any means, even though some consider me one in the Zodiac case. I have studied the Z case for the most of my life , yet I feel there is so much more to the case than what has been told. My friend Dr Howard Davis, has a great site that shows the connection between Charles Manson the Process Church and the Zodiac. I have read the book "The Ultimate Evil" by Maury Terry about David Berkowitz, Charles Manson and a Satanic cult that was and still is coast to coast ( NY to Ca.) They believe in the teachings of Aleister Crowley. It is a known by many of Darlene's family members, that Darlene Ferrin was introduced to this cult by her first husband Jim Phillips. That wasn't so unusual for the late 60's, many of us were curious about the unknown and different cults. I dabbled with Tarot cards, palm reading, Ouija boards, seance's. At that time in my life I had no idea that these are not heathley practices and can be very dangerous. I do believe that this is where Darlene met her killer and that he was into a very dangerous Satanic cult, among other things criminal, like counterfeit money and drug dealing. As I was reading The Ultimate Evil and knowing there were other killers connected to Berlowitz, there was one that stood out to me. He fit the description of one of my Zodiac suspects. (In the book he is called Manson 2. ) Most of the SOS killings were very much like Zodiac's, they were couples in cars near water,on or near holidays. Including the date the SOS murders started which was on July 29th 1976. A year later the killer taunted the police in July asking about what would they have for July 29th 1977, then on July 31st he struck again. Zodiac may have started his writing on July 29th, sent them and they arrived on July 31st 1969. (Many things reminded me of Zodiac.) Some of the descriptions where , white man in his 30's, curly permed brown hair 5 ft 8 or 9, straight dark blond hair, brown wavy hair combed straight back. Some said 160 -170 pounds other were heavier. Some were shot others stabbed, like Zodiac. During the time that Zodiac went quiet, the SOS murders were taking place in NY. David was caught on 8/10/77, Zodiac wrote a letter about his "return" eight months after Berkowitz was caught. The trial started May 8th 1978 Zodiac was back in California by April 24th 1978. ( That letter was one that the so called experts first claimed not to be a true Zodiac letter, then later said it was. When Zodiac wrote that 78 letter he back stepped a bit after saying " I am back with you, then said he never left? Bottom line is that yes I do believe there is a good chance that Zodiac belonged to the same cult and could have been part of the SOS group if not the leader. Some of the letters were written in block letters and had the same words used by Zodiac, like "shall" and spelled women "wemon". One of the coats that was described the killer wore ,is a match to my suspects green 3/4 length jacket that he had on in 1990. The inside of that jacket was lined with red plaid. The SOS murders were shot with a 44, some of the bullets were to badly damaged that it may not have been always a 44? More than one of those killers in that group could have also used a 44. One of the Marin victims was shot with a 44 and she was 44 ys old at that time. Her name was Edda Kane and was put into the same crime basket as all of the other Trailside murders. Edda was shot on 3/29/1981. Carpenter was a rapist and only killed to not leave a witness. The ones who were not raped , I believe were the work of the Zodiac. Ellen Hanson and Steven Haertle were attacked by a man described as being 45 to 55, 5 ft 9 in tall 175 pounds , gray close cropped hair, hazel eyes, dark horned -rimmed glasses and stained yellow teeth. He spoke in a slow and deliberate manner, had very clean hands. He wore a yellow jacket that was a special order from Billings Montana.with the words Olympic drinking team Montana. ( Only one yellow jacket like that was ever made) I saw my RH suspect with that very same jacket! Anyone who knows about the Zodiac case, knows that Zodiac's voice was described that same way. I am not saying that Zodiac was the Trailside killer, but that David Carpenter was blamed for some of Zodiac's murders! That Zodiac has killed many more than we may ever know and some of the murders could have been as far away as New York?
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 12:11:53 GMT -8
AmazinGates posted
Sandy, I looked very little at this case quite a few years back, but not enough to really say I looked at it. I read the letters/notes mostly and that was it. I have gone back through it "some" now, and there are some things written that does remind me of zodiac. The whole "son of sam" things is interesting... just how many "sons" does "Sam" have. Not that it means that, but it kind of jumped out that way to me.
I also think we have a group of people, spread out all over the place. What exactly is their main primary goal, and how many of them are connected up into another kind of thought process/belief within the main group? We could have a group who has one main purpose and many in the group are also tied to something else they are doing. That can be pretty common among people in crime. Criminals who work together in one aspect can be more trusting of one another than they would with "normal" people, so if one is a whackjob he might not necessarily feels he has to hide that, and in turn, others might accept that person and get involved in what he/she is doing. I've seen that a lot really.
So how many of these people are scattered about all over, and how many of these BIG murder cases(especially, the sk cases) are tied to people who are connected? It would not surprise me at all to find out quite a few are. I actually believe BTK is tied somehow to the Zodiac case, so why not Son of Sam as well. And the other thing is, if you are a sk, wouldn't you kind of feel some kind of bond with other sk's... not that you would go hang out with them, etc, but maybe you are interested in what they are doing. You might get involved with them in some other capacity? Or where did all of this stuff originate? Were several people involved in something together in one place at some point and then as they went "back home" we now have this dispersed loosely(or maybe closely) connecter group of people, who are killing people, writing letters and acting a lot in the same manner. If the killers are stupid enough to write letters out into the public, what would they not be stupid enough to "contact" the other killers in some way. Maybe there is a code that they recognize when one writes letters, so they go out and do "like" killings and write about them to have "secret pals" if you wish. Someone they can code to, talk with secretly, and make 'friends'... yes, sounds crazy, but 'something' is going on here with a lot of these sk's. They don't end up doing a lot of the same crazy stuff like this without 'something' going on between them, even if, like I just said, they are loosely connected and found a way to "communicate"
On the other hand, if it is some kind of "satanic" (for a better word) cult, or again, some secret belief system these people came in contact with somewhere along the line, then each took those beliefs back home(all over), then what are we looking at here. Where is the origination.
Now one thing i did notice just within the last few months(when I started looking at the Minutemen connection to Zodiac(possibly, and I do believe there is one) I find Dennis mower, minuteman, living up in REdding CA... and Jim Phillips/crabtree's step- father is up just outside of Redding in, Pine Grove. He is in Darlene's/Jim's phonebook, listed as project city/central valley. that use to be the OLD names of that little town back then, but there was a few blocks connected to it called PINE GROVE, and that is actually where they lived. But no one usually called it that, they just called that whole are CV - Central Valley/ or Project City. Part of that area right there was also called Summit City. Now it is called Shasta Lake City or just shasta lake. so I'm trying to find out if Dennis Mower had any connection to Jim Phillips/crabtree. I have not started to look at that yet.
sometimes i wonder if a lot of these people met in the military or something. What would have brought them all together when they are living scattered all over the usa? Did some group have "recruiters" that traveled around "recruiting" people into their "cult".. or did a lot of them just come out to california, and especially, to San Fran because at that time it was the "thing to do" run out to SF and see what was going on? a lot of people did... so were some of these sk's all over, people who went out to cali for a bit and got introduced into weird stuff and then when they went back home they were given local connections they could then hook up with? or was this some kind of weird military thing?
and I know I have traced so many of these weird sk cases to a connection in michigan. I have yet to really figure out the original connection to Michigan, but so many have a connection there. And it is for certain in the 60's and 70's there were a lot of sk's, and way too many of them have the michigan connection.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 12:12:54 GMT -8
AmazinGates Posted
Sandy....
now about the coat you are talking about Sandy. so there is only one made? now that is really interesting, and a very good clue. If that is so(which I am sure you researched it), then why is your suspect up in Montana getting that ONE AND ONLY coat? or did he special order it through the mail? or did someone from there come to where he was and give it to him? or did he steal it? or did he kill someone who had it, and took it? either way, he has some kind of tie to Montana or tie to someone from Montana. That is interesting. We should not ignore that coat. Something going on with that.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 12:13:29 GMT -8
Sandy Posted
amazingates, How I found out about the jackets that were made in Billings Montana, was from Graysmiths book Sleeping Lady. I don't remember if there were 5 or 6 made, but remember that only one was made in the color yellow. When I saw RH wearing it, I had no idea about it being worn by one of the Trailside shooters! It was one of the nicest looking jackets I had ever seen. The Yellow was kind of gold/yellow and on the back were two fists holding two beer mugs with the foam flowing over the edge of each glass, great art work. Being an artist myself anything artistic stands out. I pointed out the jacket to one of my co-workers and she thought it was very nice looking as well. RH was not much of a drinker, so we thought it was sort of funny for him to wear a jacket that said Olympic drinking team on it. That was another reason I remember that jacket. I about fell off my chair when I read about that very jacket in Graysmiths book! I wish he wasn't so hard to get in touch with these days. I use to talk to him by phone without a problem. He might know more about the company that made the jackets and for what group they were designed for? Someone had to pay for them and if they were shipped, whose address was the shipping address? You would think that the detective working the case would have checked that out? I hope that RH hasn't found this site, He will get rid of that jacket if it was his and not his buddy who I call Honcho. I was told that there were four in their group. I know that two of them were from Chicago, they were the two who brought the counterfeit printing plates for the ring in Vallejo. One of the RH's is a printer by trade. When I followed the money, he was the only one I was able to find who had plenty of it. One of them has a husky voice, another one has a squeaky high pitched voice when he talks loudly. Something is very wrong with his voice box! He is the one I believe was a room mate to one of my boyfriends at that time, that is the one I call Honcho. He was extremely upset when my boyfriend Don Porter said the name "Dee" in front of me. That was when I heard that squeaky voice. I am not sure which victim it was that said the killer had a squeaky high pitched voice? But I think it was the victim Steven Heartle in Santa Cruz who also described the yellow jacket. I believe that Jim Phillips knew Honcho and that was the man who went with them to the Virgin Islands, who Darlene saw kill someone. If anyone here knows how to get more information about who and why those Montana jackets were made, I could use some help.
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Post by amazingates on Dec 10, 2019 12:32:36 GMT -8
okay just for a bit of background, so I can get this in straight in my head... this is the guy who identified the jacket the would be killer was wearing in the Santa Cruz Mountains when he tried to kill them. Steven Russell Haertle identifies a jacket worn by the would be killer of he and his friend when they were attacked in the Santa Cruz Mountains.
On Friday, March 27, Ellen Marie Hansen and a friend, Steven Russell Haertle, both 20-year-old students at the University of California at Davis, went to Henry Colwell Redwoods State Park just north of Santa Cruz to camp and hike over the weekend. The park is about 65 miles south of here. Mr. Haertle later told the authorities in Santa Cruz County that on Sunday afternoon, as they walked up Ridge Trail, he and Miss Hansen met a man of about 45 to 50 years old, with dark hair and hazel eyes, who went past them but later returned with a revolver. The man threatened to rape Miss Hansen, the young man said, and then started shooting. First Witness to Survive www.nytimes.com/1981/04/05/us/slaying-renews-fears-of-a-killer-in-california-parks.htmlit was later said the person responsible was The Trailside Killer - David CarpenterSandy Betts had realized the jacket worn by David Carpenter, The Trailside Killer, was the same Jacket worn by one of the people she believes is connected to Zodiac. He had on a jaket just like it, and these jackets were not common at all; actually, they were very uncommon and were made in Billings Montana and most likely a custom made order for a very small group. So this is all very interesting to me. Why is Sandy's POI wearing one of these jackets, the same as The Trailside Killer is wearing. Is David Carpenter, The Trailside Killer really the attacker of Steven . Haertle, or do both the Trailside Killer and Sandy's POI have the same custom ordered Jacket. Or do they know one another and somehow Sandy's POI ends up with David Carpenter's jacket. Being that Sandy believes Darlene Ferrin knew Zodiac, and being there is a connection to Darlene's ex husband Jim Crabtree to Santa Cruz(and being I also believe there are Santa Cruz ties to Zodiac), and then Sandy's POI has on the same custom jacket as the attacker considered to be the Trailside killer in Santa Cruz is wearing the same exact kind of Jacket... then I think we need to figure out this connection if there is one; or was the Trailside killer in Santa Cruz, actually, Sandy's POI, and was mistakenly thought to be the Trailside killer because of his killing in the National Parks etc.
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