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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 1:01:12 GMT -8
Here is the social security number of Joseph Newton Chandler it has to be the one Nichols was using under chandler name as it has nichols death date on it. maybe this can help us figure out where he might have been during the missing years.
NAME: Joseph Newton Chandler GENDER: Male RACE: White BIRTH DATE: 11 Mar 1937 BIRTH PLACE: Buffalo Erie, New York DEATH DATE: 24 Jul 2002 FATHER: Joseph N Chandler MOTHER: Ellen C Kaaber SSN: 504803358 TYPE OF CLAIM: Birth record established before age of 5. NOTES: 30 Oct 1978: Name listed as JOSEPH NEWTON CHANDLER; 07 Sep 2002: Name listed as JOSEPH N CHANDLER
you probably should copy this and stick it up in your first post so it is easy to find again.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 1:33:03 GMT -8
This is really interesting. I don't know what date Nichols lived here under the Chandler name. But this is at 3805 Franklin Blvd Cleaveland OHIO 44113-2861... seems the place has been around since 1874 in 1934 there were 80 people living there, another 30 living in the carriage house and another 30 next door in another part of the estate. I can't find the date yet when Nichols actually lived here under the chandler name. I'll keep looking. there is a photo of the historic mansion here and the story about it clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/847
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Post by ophion1031 on Oct 29, 2019 1:55:49 GMT -8
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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 2:02:20 GMT -8
okay here is an article on patch that says in 1978, Robert Nichols applied for a social security card while living in Rapid City, South Dakota. He also applied for a copy of a birth certificate from a Buffalo, New York hospital. The social security card and birth certificate were in the name of Joseph Newton Chandler III. Nichols got both documents.He would move to Ohio that same year and begin working for a Northeast Ohio company. He was 41 at the time( that age is not right) they made a mistake and used the age off the ID, not his real age. he would have really been 52 in 1978Social Security Administration was able to confirm that Nichols worked under his real name until 1976 so real age was 50
so he decided to become someone else and not keep working or draw his Social Security when older ? under his real name? so where did he get the money to live on from 76-78 if not working? maybe working under another name? clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/847so he leaves in 1965... works under his real name until 1976... ends up in Rapid City, SD in 1978 and applies for the SS card and for the birth certificate in NY then goes to OHIO to live. Hmmm so he is out there for 11 years working under his real name. so for whatever reason he left in 1965, he really was not worried about it for 11 years in 1978 or when he quit working in his real name in 1976.. maybe he had another ID from 1976 to 1978, or even more than one ? So he applied for the Birth Certificate and the SS card... so he had neither one. So he did not find them anywhere. So where did he pick this name from?
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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 2:05:48 GMT -8
clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/847I wonder if they just rented out rooms to anyone. From what I gathered after skimming through that article was that it was set up kinda like a hotel. ________________ it sounded like way back a long time ago people piled in there because of the great depression... but when he lived there it said something like it was made into 13-14 apt rooms? I think that is what I read it is 3am here and not sure what I read haha. but yes, probably just rented out rooms. so now we have to wonder WHY he picked that place to go live.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 2:14:46 GMT -8
okay here is this 1965, but he wrote a letter to one son that year that was postmarked from Napa, California.• Other postmarks indicated that Nichols moved through Oklahoma and Virginia before settling for a time in California.so he at least mailed letters from oklahoma and virginia... so there is a tie to oklahoma, and oklahoma is the state where the REAL chandler was living. we don't have the years and dates on the postmarks of OK or VA.. and we don't know for how long the REAL chandler's were living in OK... but maybe he met them there? just a guess, I have no idea what I think haha www.investigationdiscovery.com/crimefeed/missing/update--real-id-of--joseph-chandler--revealed--but-his-life-rema
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Post by ophion1031 on Oct 29, 2019 2:17:00 GMT -8
I wonder if there is anywhere on the interwebs to find a complete work history for Nichols/Chandler. I think I remember reading something about a job he had in California, but I can't be certain. If he didn't work from '76 until '78 that could be something to look at, and maybe he was unemployed for a good amount of time before that even. But like you said, what did he do for money? Maybe that is why he ended up using a false name, he could have been involved in something illegal that paid his bills. And if there are no bills in his name then it's probable that he was earning his income illegally. Or maybe he was just shacking up with some woman that paid for everything and he just sat on ass and did nothing. It's frustrating to have so many questions and no answers.
I might be mistaken, but I could have swore that Nichols was using the Chandler name when he lived in California, maybe late 60's, but I'm pretty sure I saw something about that and it stated he was using that name long before he applied for the SSN. Again, I might be wrong about that. For the last few years I have kinda been taking a break from the true crime world and have just recently started getting back into it. Since we started communicating over the last week or so I have to admit that I am glad to be back at it and looking forward to looking into a lot of cases with you, assuming you stick around here, of course.
Cheers to you, man!
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Post by ophion1031 on Oct 29, 2019 2:21:13 GMT -8
okay here is this 1965, but he wrote a letter to one son that year that was postmarked from Napa, California.• Other postmarks indicated that Nichols moved through Oklahoma and Virginia before settling for a time in California.so he at least mailed letters from oklahoma and virginia... so there is a tie to oklahoma, and oklahoma is the state where the REAL chandler was living. we don't have the years and dates on the postmarks of OK or VA.. and we don't know for how long the REAL chandler's were living in OK... but maybe he met them there? just a guess, I have no idea what I think haha www.investigationdiscovery.com/crimefeed/missing/update--real-id-of--joseph-chandler--revealed--but-his-life-remaGreat find! I doubt Nichols met the Chandler's since they died in 1945 and Chandler mailing a letter from Oklahoma probably would have been in 1964 or maybe early '65 since it says that it was before he settled in California, which would have been on or before March 1965. Going through Virginia and Oklahoma from Michigan is a strange way to get to California. Perhaps he was just stopping to visit some people first. Wasn't his family living in Virginia when he abandoned them?
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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 2:44:07 GMT -8
ok I found documents for this info... February 8, 2000 - receipt where he as joseph chandler asked for copies of vital statistic records / birth record his address at the time is 34844 Lakeshore blvd apt D, eastlake OH 44095 . this is a letter so he must have mailed off for them in NY rather than go there. the document states the relationship of the person requesting the recorde as SELF. Name: Joseph Chandler Gender: Male Residence Years: 2000-2002 Address: 34844 Lake Shore Blvd Apt Residence Place: Eastlake, Ohio, USA Zip Code: 44095-2030 Phone Number: 440-942-3314so he must have asked in 2000 for the birth certificate. oh this is interesting...lol First, on February 4, 1989, the man who called himself Joseph Newton Chandler arrived at a local hospital with severe lacerations to his penis. The story he told the two doctors there was that he cut himself while attempting to masturbate with a vacuum cleaner. A doctor's note says that he appeared older than his stated age. (My note... would that really cut you up with severe lacerations? )The coroner who examined his body after the suicide made a note that Chandler had male pattern baldness and authorities now believe the hair seen in the photographs was a wig. Orange County, CA: According to his work history, which may or may not be accurate, this man worked as an engineer in Fullerton from 1966 - 1971. www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/2jikop/joseph_newton_chandler_was_a_sexual_deviant_new/
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Post by ophion1031 on Oct 29, 2019 2:49:16 GMT -8
I think that Lakeshore address is also where he lived at the time of his death. I wonder why he was wanting a copy of his (well, Chandler's) birth certificate in 2000. Why would he need it at that point?
The vacuum story is funny. I always suspected that was a lie and that something more embarrassing happened or that maybe he attempted to rape someone and they bit him or somehow injured him. And maybe that is what it all comes down to is that he was a rapist and was hiding out for that reason.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 2:53:31 GMT -8
I think that Lakeshore address is also where he lived at the time of his death. I wonder why he was wanting a copy of his (well, Chandler's) birth certificate in 2000. Why would he need it at that point? The vacuum story is funny. I always suspected that was a lie and that something more embarrassing happened or that maybe he attempted to rape someone and they bit him or somehow injured him. And maybe that is what it all comes down to is that he was a rapist and was hiding out for that reason. _____________ Yes, I am not sure that a vacuum would cause severe lacerations? seems like he could have made up a better story than that haha. ok I posted the birth certificate request letter up in the above post now. it is 4am, I need to go to sleep, I'll look more tomorrow. I have some data bases I can check in tomorrow now that I have some of the addresses and locations etc.
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Post by touchmysheenis on Oct 29, 2019 23:24:03 GMT -8
There was a serial killer in Michigan called Zodius not long before California's Zodiac? I hope the FBI took a close look for connections between the two.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 29, 2019 23:59:24 GMT -8
There was a serial killer in Michigan called Zodius not long before California's Zodiac? I hope the FBI took a close look for connections between the two. I definitely believe Zodiac of cali is connected to Zodius of Michigan. I have always thought that Zodiac had a Michigan connection before california. I'll try to explain this at some point why I think this. BTK also had a connection to Michigan. In fact I have often wondered if all of this sk stuff did not start right there in Michigan.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 0:00:44 GMT -8
Your profile pic is cracking me up... uh, I think I remember doing something like that when I was a kid haha. sorry off topic, but every time I glance over there I'm laughing haha
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Post by touchmysheenis on Oct 30, 2019 0:19:25 GMT -8
Your profile pic is cracking me up... uh, I think I remember doing something like that when I was a kid haha. sorry off topic, but every time I glance over there I'm laughing haha Sheen is a personal hero of mine. Or he was at least until he caught the aids lol.
I know the unabomber was going to U of Michigan but I doubt he had killed anyone then and was probably just focused on his studies. BTK in Michigan though, could be something there maybe. When was BTK in the bay area? Didn;t he move out there in the late 60's before joining the navy or air force or whatever it was?
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 1:48:30 GMT -8
He reminds me of DB Cooper.... ?? I know, I'm just seeing things ... not so much the mouth, but his eyebrows and ears.. I don't know just something about him.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 18:38:53 GMT -8
Death Certificate of the boy's father, who also died in the wreck with the boy and the mother. listing the address as 1339 East 21st street, Tulsa Oklahoma.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 18:44:56 GMT -8
I need to find the original documents for these. I'm not sure why they are showing Nicholas on them as for sure they did not know that when he requested them... or did they?
Name Joseph Newton Chandler Birth 11 Mar 1937 Death 24 Jul 2002 Eastlake, Lake Nichols' Address Residence Eastlake, Lake, Ohio, United States Publication 9 Sep 2002 Other 24 Jul 2002
Name: Joseph N Chandler [Unknown Nicholas] Birth Date: 11 Mar 1937 Phone Number: 942-3314 Address: 34844 Lake Shore Blvd, Eastlake, OH, 44095-2084 (1992)
Name: Joseph N Chandler [Unknown Nicholas] Birth Date: 11 Mar 1937 Address: 3805 Franklin Blvd, Cleveland, OH, 44113-2861 - Don't have a date
Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007
Name: Joseph Newton Chandler [Unknown Nicholas] [Joseph N Chandler] Gender: Male Race: White Birth Date: 11 Mar 1937 Birth Place: Buffalo Erie, New York Death Date: 24 Jul 2002 this is nicholas' death date Father: Joseph N Chandler Mother: Ellen C Kaaber
SSN: 504803358 Type of Claim: Birth record established before age of 5. Notes: 30 Oct 1978: Name listed as JOSEPH NEWTON CHANDLER; 07 Sep 2002: Name listed as JOSEPH N CHANDLER
perhaps Nicholas knew the Kaaber family, the boy's mother?
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 18:49:03 GMT -8
from the 1940 Census ( this is the child who Nichols' took his name) Queens County, New York
me: Joseph N Chandler 3rd Age: 3 Estimated birth year: abt 1937 Gender: Male Race: White Birthplace: New York Marital status: Single Relation to Head of House: Son Home in 1940: New York, Queens, New York Map of Home in 1940: View Map Street: Leslie Road House Number: 178 19 Resident on farm in 1935: No Sheet Number: 11B Attended School or College: No Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Joe M Chandler 37 - Father ( that M is a mistranscribed letter; it should be an "N") Ellen Kaarer Chandler 27 - Mother Joseph N Chandler 3
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 18:57:42 GMT -8
Nichols' death records under the name of Joseph N Chandler
Ohio, Death Records, 1908-1932, 1938-2007
Name: Joseph Newton Chandler [Unknown Nicholas] Birth Date: 11 Mar 1937 Gender: Male Race: White Hispanic Origin: Not Hispanic (Latino) Residence Place: Eastlake, Lake, Ohio, United States Residence Zip Code: 44095 Death Date: 24 Jul 2002 Hospital of Death: Home Death Place: Eastlake, Lake, Ohio, USA Certificate: 066817 Age at Death: 65 Registrar's Certificate Number: B01084 Certifier: Coroner Referred to Coroner: Referred to Coroner Autopsy: No Autopsy performed Method of Disposition: Cremation Filing Date: 9 Sep 2002 Hospital Status: Other/Residence Injury at Work: No Type Place of Injury: Home Day of Injury: 24 Jul 2002 Marital status: Divorced Census Tract: 2020 Primary Registration District: 4302
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 18:59:24 GMT -8
How do we know he really killed HIMSELF?
Maybe he was murdered and made to look like a suicide?
No autopsy
Maybe it was not the law he was running and hiding from, maybe it was someone who was going to KILL him?
haha, my brain thinks like this LOL
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 19:23:59 GMT -8
The boys mother's info from her death certificate ( I have it but I can't get it to post)
Mother's maiden name was Ellen Christina Kaaber. Birth place - Folcroft, Pennsylvania
I think this is her sister as she is in a household with her and she is 2 years older than Ellen Alma M Kaaber 251 East 236th , New York, NY
Let me see if I can find any connections of the KAABER family with Nichols
address, 1339 East 21st, Tulsa OK
white married born july 29th 1915 age at death - 30 yrs, 4 months 20 days housewife birth place - Folcroft, PA father - James J Kaaber, born in Denmark Mother - Martha Murderspack Mother -on other docs listed as Martha Rauber(that is probably a mistranscribing of Kaaber? ) born - Denmark Person signing death certificate - Alam M Kaaber - 251 East 236th, New York, NY
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Post by ophion1031 on Oct 30, 2019 19:39:06 GMT -8
Cool find on the death certificate! I hadn't seen that before... I have wondered about Nichols possibly being murdered as well, even if that is not likely. Same with Fred Manalli. I always wondered if his accident was really an accident. Especially with that personal ad. But that is off topic so I'll stick to the Nichols/Chandler case...
Why does it say Chandler's marital status is divorced? Either someone updated that after it was discovered that he was really Nichols, or he got married as Chandler at some point. Maybe that has been discussed on some of the other sites but I don't remember ever seeing anything about him being married. He was described as a loner and left his family to be alone for whatever reason.
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 19:43:10 GMT -8
Cool find on the death certificate! I hadn't seen that before... I have wondered about Nichols possibly being murdered as well, even if that is not likely. Same with Fred Manalli. I always wondered if his accident was really an accident. Especially with that personal ad. But that is off topic so I'll stick to the Nichols/Chandler case... Why does it say Chandler's marital status is divorced? Either someone updated that after it was discovered that he was really Nichols, or he got married as Chandler at some point. Maybe that has been discussed on some of the other sites but I don't remember ever seeing anything about him being married. He was described as a loner and left his family to be alone for whatever reason. _______________ someone had to update this stuff and they put a note in the records, because it has alternative name as unknown Nichols. but then again, why would he be listed as divorced under the name of Chandler? that is weird, not sure what is going on with that. I have death certificates and the documents for everything I'm posting, but I can't get them on here ... I don't know what I doing haha. the few I got on here, I pulled off of someone else's upload in their family tree, but these are coming right off the microfilm records and I can't get them loaded... help haha
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Post by amazingates on Oct 30, 2019 19:46:52 GMT -8
in the 1940 United States Federal Census
Name: Ellen Kaaber Chandler Age: 27 Estimated birth year: abt 1913 Gender: Female Race: White Birthplace: Pennsylvania Marital status: Married Relation to Head of House: Wife Home in 1940: New York, Queens, New York Map of Home in 1940: View Map Street: Leslie Road House Number: 178 19 Inferred Residence in 1935: Dallas, Parker, Texas Residence in 1935: Dallas, Parker, Texas Resident on farm in 1935: No Sheet Number: 11B Attended School or College: No Highest Grade Completed: High School, 4th year Household Members: Name Age Joe M Chandler 37 Ellen Kaarer Chandler 27 Joseph N Chandler 3
this family was also living in the Bronx, at the same address that is listed for Alma Kaaber who is on Ellen's Death Certificate, this has to be her sister. so when she died, her sister alma was still living at the same house in the Bronx that the kids were in when young.
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